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	<title>Comments on: Home birth advocate&#8217;s baby dies during free birth, prompts questions</title>
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	<link>http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/2009/04/30/home-birth-advocate-janet-frasers-baby-dies-during-free-birth/</link>
	<description>Just another mama musing about her kids, Attachment Parenting, green living, activism, living with an anxiety disorder, and life in general</description>
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		<title>By: Angela</title>
		<link>http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/2009/04/30/home-birth-advocate-janet-frasers-baby-dies-during-free-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-29920</link>
		<dc:creator>Angela</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2012 15:36:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/?p=2560#comment-29920</guid>
		<description>Well - it is hard to see why some people make the choices they do because we all have different experiences.

Having had four c-sections, I would do ANYTHING to have a VBAMC, however after the FIRST c-section (I was lied to in order to sign the permission to have the procedure done, and later found proof that it was most certainly a lie in our paperwork - long story!), no OB would touch me with a ten-foot pole.  Each C-section was a repeat elective, although I have been researching for years about safety in all different environments and with all different interventions and assistants.  Putting many MANY studies together has been done, and going in for a repeat c-section with my fourth baby knowing that I had a more than 3-fold increased risk of dying on the table than if I was attempting a vaginal birth after 3 previous c-sections was hard to deal with.  On the flip side, having a vaginal birth after 3 previous c-sections has a significantly higher rate of needing an hysterectomy...

I believe that we are all so emotional about this because we all care for our babies, our births and safety and choice.  Where I live in Australia - I will not be &quot;allowed&quot; a VBAMC, and finding a midwife willing to attend such a irth would be a rare find indeed.  When we have another baby - my risk of DEATH on the operating table is increased again if I chose a c-section.  Should I sign up for another c-section KNOWING that my risk of DEATH is higher than ever before on that cold operating table compared to a VBAMC - knowing I am choosing something that risk&#039;s my children&#039;s mother&#039;s life significantly?  Should I choose a homebirth where I am less likely to die - but then if I can&#039;t find a midwife to care for me?  What if I did a UC because there ARE no other &quot;safe&quot; options available to me as far as I can determine through years of searching through medical publications as well as statistics up to my ears?

Should I have my choices taken away from me?  Should I be forced to have a medicalised birth although I have spent years educating myself?  Should other&#039;s be condemned for researching for themselves and deciding that the hospital is the best environment to give birth in?  Should a women make the best choice she can given the circumstances she&#039;s in (including the laws and availability of midwives, hospitals, personal health, support system etc)?

We all want the best for every mum and bub... every woman has had (or will have) different experiences, and will make different decisions based on that.  If you have been hurt badly, lied to or had significant physical and emotional damage from traditional medical care - being forced back into that environment will cause fear, that will hamper labour due to how women were made (any threat the woman feels causes labour to slow until she no longer experiences that &quot;fight or flight response&quot;, and when she feels safe again, labour should resume) - labour slows and then interventions &quot;have&quot; to be done... and the cycle repeats itself - reenforcing the belief that the hospital is not the place to birth.
If a woman feels comfortable in a hospital setting, she will not feel threatened or fear, her labour should hopefully be fine as much as possible and she will hopefully have as great a birth as possible.  She will feel positive, and then her belief that the hospital is the safest place to birth is reenforced.

Let&#039;s just support the right to choose, the right for all women to be able to access any medical care she needs to support her choice for birth - and support women who are grieving all over the world at home, in hospitals and many other places for their babies who didn&#039;t make it. 


*BTW - I am not able to access my own computer atm, but I will try and find the composite of many studies I used to have, and post it up links if I can find it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well &#8211; it is hard to see why some people make the choices they do because we all have different experiences.</p>
<p>Having had four c-sections, I would do ANYTHING to have a VBAMC, however after the FIRST c-section (I was lied to in order to sign the permission to have the procedure done, and later found proof that it was most certainly a lie in our paperwork &#8211; long story!), no OB would touch me with a ten-foot pole.  Each C-section was a repeat elective, although I have been researching for years about safety in all different environments and with all different interventions and assistants.  Putting many MANY studies together has been done, and going in for a repeat c-section with my fourth baby knowing that I had a more than 3-fold increased risk of dying on the table than if I was attempting a vaginal birth after 3 previous c-sections was hard to deal with.  On the flip side, having a vaginal birth after 3 previous c-sections has a significantly higher rate of needing an hysterectomy&#8230;</p>
<p>I believe that we are all so emotional about this because we all care for our babies, our births and safety and choice.  Where I live in Australia &#8211; I will not be &#8220;allowed&#8221; a VBAMC, and finding a midwife willing to attend such a irth would be a rare find indeed.  When we have another baby &#8211; my risk of DEATH on the operating table is increased again if I chose a c-section.  Should I sign up for another c-section KNOWING that my risk of DEATH is higher than ever before on that cold operating table compared to a VBAMC &#8211; knowing I am choosing something that risk&#8217;s my children&#8217;s mother&#8217;s life significantly?  Should I choose a homebirth where I am less likely to die &#8211; but then if I can&#8217;t find a midwife to care for me?  What if I did a UC because there ARE no other &#8220;safe&#8221; options available to me as far as I can determine through years of searching through medical publications as well as statistics up to my ears?</p>
<p>Should I have my choices taken away from me?  Should I be forced to have a medicalised birth although I have spent years educating myself?  Should other&#8217;s be condemned for researching for themselves and deciding that the hospital is the best environment to give birth in?  Should a women make the best choice she can given the circumstances she&#8217;s in (including the laws and availability of midwives, hospitals, personal health, support system etc)?</p>
<p>We all want the best for every mum and bub&#8230; every woman has had (or will have) different experiences, and will make different decisions based on that.  If you have been hurt badly, lied to or had significant physical and emotional damage from traditional medical care &#8211; being forced back into that environment will cause fear, that will hamper labour due to how women were made (any threat the woman feels causes labour to slow until she no longer experiences that &#8220;fight or flight response&#8221;, and when she feels safe again, labour should resume) &#8211; labour slows and then interventions &#8220;have&#8221; to be done&#8230; and the cycle repeats itself &#8211; reenforcing the belief that the hospital is not the place to birth.<br />
If a woman feels comfortable in a hospital setting, she will not feel threatened or fear, her labour should hopefully be fine as much as possible and she will hopefully have as great a birth as possible.  She will feel positive, and then her belief that the hospital is the safest place to birth is reenforced.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s just support the right to choose, the right for all women to be able to access any medical care she needs to support her choice for birth &#8211; and support women who are grieving all over the world at home, in hospitals and many other places for their babies who didn&#8217;t make it. </p>
<p>*BTW &#8211; I am not able to access my own computer atm, but I will try and find the composite of many studies I used to have, and post it up links if I can find it.</p>
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		<title>By: justn</title>
		<link>http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/2009/04/30/home-birth-advocate-janet-frasers-baby-dies-during-free-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-29388</link>
		<dc:creator>justn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2011 00:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/?p=2560#comment-29388</guid>
		<description>omg.
do your own research, people.

why, why, why, why, why do the vast majority of women (and men) just regurgitate what has been culturally and commercially programmed into their minds without even hinting at the necessity of evidence?

why not do some research on infant mortality rates? on home-birthing, and for that matter, unassisted birthing? on the reasons, actual provable reasons, why babies/mothers die in childbirth, and why it happened in the past?

Molly says:
&quot;Babies die in hospitals all the time? Seriously? I’m sorry, but how likely are healthy babies to die in a hospital and how likely are healthy babies going to die during a homebirth?&quot;

don&#039;t be sorry molly, just look it up.

i was expecting more out of treehuggers.. read some ina may gaskin for god&#039;s sake! let&#039;s not open our brainwashed mouths before doing the research, or you&#039;ll be advocating without a clue as to what is actually safest. when it comes to childbirth, that&#039;s simply a disgusting level of ethical irresponsibility.

&quot;many western doctors hold the belief that we can improve everything, even natural childbirth in a healthy woman. this philosophy is the philosophy of people who think it deplorable that they were not consulted at the creation of eve, because they would have done a better job.&quot;

-kloosterman 1994</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>omg.<br />
do your own research, people.</p>
<p>why, why, why, why, why do the vast majority of women (and men) just regurgitate what has been culturally and commercially programmed into their minds without even hinting at the necessity of evidence?</p>
<p>why not do some research on infant mortality rates? on home-birthing, and for that matter, unassisted birthing? on the reasons, actual provable reasons, why babies/mothers die in childbirth, and why it happened in the past?</p>
<p>Molly says:<br />
&#8220;Babies die in hospitals all the time? Seriously? I’m sorry, but how likely are healthy babies to die in a hospital and how likely are healthy babies going to die during a homebirth?&#8221;</p>
<p>don&#8217;t be sorry molly, just look it up.</p>
<p>i was expecting more out of treehuggers.. read some ina may gaskin for god&#8217;s sake! let&#8217;s not open our brainwashed mouths before doing the research, or you&#8217;ll be advocating without a clue as to what is actually safest. when it comes to childbirth, that&#8217;s simply a disgusting level of ethical irresponsibility.</p>
<p>&#8220;many western doctors hold the belief that we can improve everything, even natural childbirth in a healthy woman. this philosophy is the philosophy of people who think it deplorable that they were not consulted at the creation of eve, because they would have done a better job.&#8221;</p>
<p>-kloosterman 1994</p>
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		<title>By: Molly</title>
		<link>http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/2009/04/30/home-birth-advocate-janet-frasers-baby-dies-during-free-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-28485</link>
		<dc:creator>Molly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Jul 2011 16:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/?p=2560#comment-28485</guid>
		<description>Babies die in hospitals all the time? Seriously? I&#039;m sorry, but how likely are healthy babies to die in a hospital and how likely are healthy babies going to die during a homebirth.

Use your critical thinking skills, please. You are making advocates of women choosing to birth however they please (within reason) stupid. Stop it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Babies die in hospitals all the time? Seriously? I&#8217;m sorry, but how likely are healthy babies to die in a hospital and how likely are healthy babies going to die during a homebirth.</p>
<p>Use your critical thinking skills, please. You are making advocates of women choosing to birth however they please (within reason) stupid. Stop it.</p>
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		<title>By: KDuffey</title>
		<link>http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/2009/04/30/home-birth-advocate-janet-frasers-baby-dies-during-free-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-28460</link>
		<dc:creator>KDuffey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jul 2011 12:59:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/?p=2560#comment-28460</guid>
		<description>I just sat down and read this entire article and all the comments that followed,I&#039;m not here to attack anyone for their own decisions,or beliefs no matter how ignorant.I understand that research on childbirth can only be done so far back,but the truth is,women have been growing their babies without medical help and delievering them as well for. millions of years,its the single most natural act in the world. There are many complications that have presented through the years in accordance with the erra, to which is no fault of the mother butbthe conditions in which she lived,there are far more diseases and illness&#039;s these days than ever before,far more reasons for a women to most deffinatly seek medical help for her birth, to ensure her and her baby&#039; s health,but that defiantly does not include all women,none of us havebthe same problems or complications. I myself have cystic fibrosis,I am relatively healthy,I take good care of myself,and although I would love nothing more than to have a totally free birth with just my husband and I,i will atleast have a midwife present in my home birth,which is supoorted by my doctors and the majority of my friends and family,but mind you,the midwife will be there for caution side only,I will be delievering my child myself,with no help from anyone besides my husband,none will touch my child or take him away,he won&#039;t get measured and his foot prints on a piece of paper,and he wont get suctioned out,seeing is how giving birth naturally squeezes the fluids from my childs lungs,my child won&#039;t be made to.cry as long as he is breathing,there is no reason to upset a calm baby,having a child is built in to my dna,as if i was born for that moment,my body will know exactly what to do,if fir any reason I should need my midwife,she will be there at my.ready. women have the strength,we all to. Often underestimate our bodies and our abilities,its time for an old practice to be new again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just sat down and read this entire article and all the comments that followed,I&#8217;m not here to attack anyone for their own decisions,or beliefs no matter how ignorant.I understand that research on childbirth can only be done so far back,but the truth is,women have been growing their babies without medical help and delievering them as well for. millions of years,its the single most natural act in the world. There are many complications that have presented through the years in accordance with the erra, to which is no fault of the mother butbthe conditions in which she lived,there are far more diseases and illness&#8217;s these days than ever before,far more reasons for a women to most deffinatly seek medical help for her birth, to ensure her and her baby&#8217; s health,but that defiantly does not include all women,none of us havebthe same problems or complications. I myself have cystic fibrosis,I am relatively healthy,I take good care of myself,and although I would love nothing more than to have a totally free birth with just my husband and I,i will atleast have a midwife present in my home birth,which is supoorted by my doctors and the majority of my friends and family,but mind you,the midwife will be there for caution side only,I will be delievering my child myself,with no help from anyone besides my husband,none will touch my child or take him away,he won&#8217;t get measured and his foot prints on a piece of paper,and he wont get suctioned out,seeing is how giving birth naturally squeezes the fluids from my childs lungs,my child won&#8217;t be made to.cry as long as he is breathing,there is no reason to upset a calm baby,having a child is built in to my dna,as if i was born for that moment,my body will know exactly what to do,if fir any reason I should need my midwife,she will be there at my.ready. women have the strength,we all to. Often underestimate our bodies and our abilities,its time for an old practice to be new again.</p>
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		<title>By: CarmenRW</title>
		<link>http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/2009/04/30/home-birth-advocate-janet-frasers-baby-dies-during-free-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-28361</link>
		<dc:creator>CarmenRW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jul 2011 21:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/?p=2560#comment-28361</guid>
		<description>Aborigine women in the amazon go through a &quot;free birth,&quot; whether they are 15 or 30, but, never l100% alone, it is somewhat assisted. Even though the birthing mother is left alone, literally, to birth on a hammock, the elder women keep an eye on her from afar, considering the fact that something could go wrong and they can quickly run to assist the birthing mother if help is needed. Why would anyone want to birth alone knowing the something could happen?!? Even aborigines are well aware of this. 
I&#039;m a mother of 2 an I&#039;ve tried natural birthing with a DOULA -although I ended both times cesarean -one girl turned and got stuck and the other never went unto labor- my pregnancies were 23 mos apart and I was scared the second time around, even though I had chosen once again to try natural, my body had given me signs and the second girl had the cord wrapped 3 times around her neck, which could have caused some trouble during delivery or maybe not. I do believe we can all try and get the desired birth but we are just all different. What works for one, doesn&#039;t work for another. I hope this lady doesn&#039;t attempt a second time around and let this be a learnt experience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aborigine women in the amazon go through a &#8220;free birth,&#8221; whether they are 15 or 30, but, never l100% alone, it is somewhat assisted. Even though the birthing mother is left alone, literally, to birth on a hammock, the elder women keep an eye on her from afar, considering the fact that something could go wrong and they can quickly run to assist the birthing mother if help is needed. Why would anyone want to birth alone knowing the something could happen?!? Even aborigines are well aware of this.<br />
I&#8217;m a mother of 2 an I&#8217;ve tried natural birthing with a DOULA -although I ended both times cesarean -one girl turned and got stuck and the other never went unto labor- my pregnancies were 23 mos apart and I was scared the second time around, even though I had chosen once again to try natural, my body had given me signs and the second girl had the cord wrapped 3 times around her neck, which could have caused some trouble during delivery or maybe not. I do believe we can all try and get the desired birth but we are just all different. What works for one, doesn&#8217;t work for another. I hope this lady doesn&#8217;t attempt a second time around and let this be a learnt experience.</p>
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		<title>By: jessy</title>
		<link>http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/2009/04/30/home-birth-advocate-janet-frasers-baby-dies-during-free-birth/comment-page-2/#comment-26849</link>
		<dc:creator>jessy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 30 Apr 2011 22:48:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crunchydomesticgoddess.com/?p=2560#comment-26849</guid>
		<description>I had a unassisted childbirth, 2 hours from the nearest hospital, our birth was and remains the most powerful experiences of our lives.  My pregnancy was truly about preparation and none of the nursery walls were painted before he was born:-) Giving birth and how we choose to do it is one of the last birthrights that remain in our control.  
The possibility of death is something that every woman who has a unassisted childbirth has to think about and come to terms with.  What happens is fully her responsibility and thats why women choose freebirth because they want to be completely responsible for their birth.  
The issue of safety in childbirth...if you can presume a hospital is more safe than your own body, well you should have your baby in the hospital and always stay close by.  Being at home without a doctor was the safest place for me to have my son
We are so removed from the natural order we forget that death is not an ugly thing and things have a divine order.  Janet did the right thing because their is no wrong in this instance, its her life, her baby, her karma.  We could commend people who choose to take responsibility for their well being and life, rather than blame and put ourselves in a disempowered situation.  We could remember Birth is magical and the science is only a linear way of comprehending the most miraculous things in this existence.  There is a lot to learn before embarking on a unassisted birth, most importantly a lot to learn about yourself.  It is a journey.  May Janet heal and put her baby to rest with Love and honor, the miracle of life remains a miracle.  May her heart expand and may she receive another opportunity to give life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had a unassisted childbirth, 2 hours from the nearest hospital, our birth was and remains the most powerful experiences of our lives.  My pregnancy was truly about preparation and none of the nursery walls were painted before he was born:-) Giving birth and how we choose to do it is one of the last birthrights that remain in our control.<br />
The possibility of death is something that every woman who has a unassisted childbirth has to think about and come to terms with.  What happens is fully her responsibility and thats why women choose freebirth because they want to be completely responsible for their birth.<br />
The issue of safety in childbirth&#8230;if you can presume a hospital is more safe than your own body, well you should have your baby in the hospital and always stay close by.  Being at home without a doctor was the safest place for me to have my son<br />
We are so removed from the natural order we forget that death is not an ugly thing and things have a divine order.  Janet did the right thing because their is no wrong in this instance, its her life, her baby, her karma.  We could commend people who choose to take responsibility for their well being and life, rather than blame and put ourselves in a disempowered situation.  We could remember Birth is magical and the science is only a linear way of comprehending the most miraculous things in this existence.  There is a lot to learn before embarking on a unassisted birth, most importantly a lot to learn about yourself.  It is a journey.  May Janet heal and put her baby to rest with Love and honor, the miracle of life remains a miracle.  May her heart expand and may she receive another opportunity to give life.</p>
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